You Can Pronounce Krishna in Any Way: Prabhupada Speaks Out

PRONOUNCE OF KRISHNA

We don’t say, ‘Why you are chanting Krsna like this?’ We never say that. We simply say, ‘Please try to chant Krsna.’

Here we continue an exchange between His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada and the poet Allen Ginsberg. It took place on May 12, 1969, in Columbus, Ohio.

Allen Ginsberg: O.K. So, Your Divine Grace, my original question was, Is the complicated ritual and the Sanskrit language–are they going to keep people from accepting what you’re …

Srila Prabhupada: No, no. We are translating, presenting everything in the English language. All our books are being published in English. Our magazine is in English.

Allen Ginsberg: But the question is, Is the mode of life that you are proposing adaptable to many, many, many people?

Srila Prabhupada: To that I say that this Krsna culture is not something that many, many people can immediately accept.

Allen Ginsberg: Yeah. But there is a thirst felt by many, many people for an alternative answer. For a better alternative system.

Srila Prabhupada: Yes. So if people are actually thirsty–if they are actually thirsty–then they can adopt this system given by the Supreme Lord. What is the difficulty there? There is no difficulty. So many American boys and girls have already adopted it, and they are not feeling any difficulty. They are feeling relief. In what respect is chanting Hare Krsna difficult? You are chanting.

Allen Ginsberg: Yes.

Srila Prabhupada: It is all in Sanskrit. What difficulty are you feeling?

Allen Ginsberg:I don’t feel too much difficulty, except aesthetically I do feel a difficulty. Yes, there is. The difficulty I feel is that there should be some flower of the American language to communicate in rather than …

Srila Prabhupada: Therefore, we are seeking your help.

Allen Ginsberg: Yeah. Well, I haven’t found another way. I still just stay chanting Hare Krsna.

Srila Prabhupada: That is also my view. I have come to America with this view: that America is at the summit of material civilization–they are not poverty‑stricken, you see?–and yet they are seeking after something. Therefore, I have come to offer, “You take this. You’ll be happy.” That is my mission.

And if the Americans take this Krsna consciousness seriously, then all other countries will take it, because America is leading at the present moment. So exalted persons like you should try to understand. What is the difficulty? There is no difficulty. Chanting Hare Krsna–anyone can chant. Even the little child is chanting. There is no difficulty. So, then, you were asking, How can this mode of living attract many people?

Allen Ginsberg: Well, mere chanting without the practice of a philosophy …

Srila Prabhupada: Philosophy is here. We are teaching Bhagavad‑gita. We are talking on Bhagavata philosophy. We are talking on Lord Sri Krsna Caitanya’s philosophy.

Allen Ginsberg: And you have a daily ritual. So my question, then, as it was originally when you first asked me what do I think …

Srila Prabhupada: Yes.

Allen Ginsberg: My question is this. Is the Caitanya‑Krsna ritual, as you have it here in this house and in the other asramas–is this something that a large mass of people can enter into?

Srila Prabhupada: In time, yes. Why not?

Allen Ginsberg: In America?

Srila Prabhupada: Yes. This we have already seen. Virtually all my students are Americans. And Krsna consciousness is spreading.

Allen Ginsberg: Yes, but what it requires is an adaptation to Indian dress and …

Srila Prabhupada: That is not very important.

Allen Ginsberg: And an adaptation to Indian food.

Srila Prabhupada: No, no. Indian food–it is not Indian food. Are you not eating fruits?

Allen Ginsberg: Yes, yes.

Srila Prabhupada: Then that is Indian food? Do you mean to say it is Indian food?

Allen Ginsberg: Well, the curried vegetable dishes.

Srila Prabhupada: Vegetables you may simply steam, if you like. That doesn’t matter. It doesn’t matter whether you take our specific taste. No. That is not the program, that to become Krsna conscious you have to change your taste. No. We say what Krsna says in Bhagavad-gita. Patram puspam phalam toyam yo me bhaktya prayacchati: “Anyone who is offering Me with devotion these vegetables, fruits, flowers, milk–I accept that.” So we are determined to satisfy Krsna, and therefore, we are selecting foodstuffs from these groups.

And these foodstuffs you are already accepting. Don’t you take vegetables? Don’t you take fruits? Don’t you take grains? So where is the new item? Now, insofar as cooking is concerned, you can cook according to your own taste. But the food groups must be these. Not flesh. Because Krsna does not say, “Offer Me flesh.”

This, very simply, is our program. And you are already eating grains, vegetables, and fruits, and you are drinking milk. So where is the difference? I don’t find any difference.

Allen Ginsberg: Well, I suppose not. You could say there is no difference, because the food is basically the same materially. It’s just a question of the style.

Srila Prabhupada: Yes. My style and your style may be different. That’s all right. In any event, to maintain health and keep body and soul together, you require eating, you require sleeping, you require mating, you require defending. We don’t say that you don’t do this.

Arjuna wanted to be nonviolent and not engage in defending. “Oh, what is the use of fighting?”

Krsna said, “No. It is required. You should.” Defending is part of this Krsna culture. So where is the difference? There is no difference. Simply we are adjusting things, so that you may become truly happy. Any intelligent man will accept this cultural idea. We are not prohibiting things, but rather, we are adjusting things. So there is no difficulty. Simply, intelligent persons like you should try to understand and take this idea and distribute it, because your country is wanting this.

Allen Ginsberg: But there is a limit to how much the pronunciation of Krsna will spread, I think. There’s a limit.

Srila Prabhupada: Hmm? No limit. You can pronounce Krsna in any way. For instance, K‑r‑i‑s‑h‑n‑a. You can pronounce Krsna in any way. Niyamitah smarane na kalah. No hard and fast rules, no limits.

Allen Ginsberg: The limit is people’s prejudice.

Srila Prabhupada: We don’t say, “Why you are chanting Krsna like this?” We never say that. We simply say, “Please try to chant Krsna.”

Allen Ginsberg: Or let us say there would be a limit until the word Krsna became as common in English as any other English word.

Srila Prabhupada: It is already in the dictionary. It is already in the dictionary. In all dictionaries you will find Krsna. What more do you want?

Allen Ginsberg: Something that will not disturb truck drivers.

Disciple: They can say Christ. They can say Krsna. It is the same.

Allen Ginsberg: That is true…. True. But they don’t say Christ. [Laughs.]

Srila Prabhupada: I have read one book, the Aquarian Gospel, wherein it is explained that Krist means love. Christ means love. And Krsna also means love. So from Krsna this word Krist has come. And in India sometimes people say Kristha. Instead of Krsna, they say Kristha. And in various regions has come the word Kestha. Generally, instead of pronouncing very precisely Krsna, if somebody’s name is Krsnacandra, they say, “Hey, Kesthara.”

Allen Ginsberg: Where is this?

Srila Prabhupada: In India everywhere. Kestha. So Kestha, Christ, Krist, Kristha, or Krsna–they’re in the same group. Pronouncing Krsna is not difficult.

We are constantly Changing Bodies

Reincarnation

We are not these material bodies, we are the spiritual force, the spiritual spark, the soul within. These bodies are simply an outward dress only. As I change my clothes yet still remain the same person so I also change my bodies but I am still the same person.

I am not an Australian, an Indian, a man, a woman, a human being or an animal, I am eternally a part and parcel of the Supreme Person, Krishna, so I have the same qualities as Him, although He has the qualities in fullness whereas I have the qualities in minute quantity. These original pure spiritual qualities are now covered because I have accepted this material body and I am falsely identifying with it.

There is a spiritual evolution of consciousness. We get a particular type of body out of the 8,400,000 different species of life according to our karma. Every living entity is a spirit soul and that spirit soul takes shelter within a material body in this world according to its karma. The living entity who has taken shelter in the dog’s body is no different to the living entity in the human body. Only the consciousness is different. Each type of body is provided according to superior arrangement to allow a living entity to suffer or enjoy in a particular way according to what he deserves and desires.

This material world has been created by Krishna to allow us to fulfil our desires to enjoy separately from Him and to simultaneously frustrate us so ultimately we come again to our original pure consciousness of serving Krishna in the spiritual world. But while we have material desires to fulfil we have to remain within the material world and take birth again, and again, and again… This cycle of birth and death has been going on since time immoral and it is very difficult to trace out the beginning of our material life.

We are more or less stuck here perpetually, sometimes with a human body, sometimes with a dogs body, sometimes with a trees body and so on according to our karma. Lord Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, who is Krishna Himself in the mood of a devotee, while instructing His principal disciple, Rupa Gosvami, said:

brahmanda brahmite kona bhagyavan jivaguru-krsna-krpaya paya bhakti-lata-bija

“According to their karma, all living entities are wandering throughout the entire universe. Some of them are being elevated to the upper planetary systems, and some are going down into the lower planetary systems. Out of many millions of wandering living entities, one who is very fortunate gets an opportunity to associate with a bona fide spiritual master by the grace of Krishna. By the mercy of both Krishna and the spiritual master, one such person receives the seed of the creeper of devotional service.” (Sri Caitanya-caritamrta Madhya-lila 19.151)

This is a scientific process, we are travelling from one body to another, not only on this planet but on innumerable others as well. This earth planet is situated in the middle of the universe and above this planet there are seven levels of heavenly planets each progressively better than the previous one, similarly, below this planet there are seven levels of hellish planets and we, the spirit souls, are travelling throughout all these planets. Bhagavad-gita states(14.18):

urdhvam gacchanti sattva-sthamadhye tisthanti rajasahjaghanya-guna-vrtti-sthaadho gacchanti tamasah

“Those situated in the mode of goodness gradually go upward to the higher planets; those in the mode of passion live on the earthly planets; and those in the mode of ignorance go down to the hellish worlds.”

So according to our actions in this life our next body is determined. We have some control over our future. If we act sinfully we will be degraded in the next life to animal bodies or to the hellish planets to suffer, if we act in the mode of goodness we will be elevated with a birth in a wealthy family or a pious family or we may be transferred to the heavenly planets for a higher standard of life there.

We are responsible for our actions in the human form of life, this is the difference between a human being and an animal. The animals are simply eating, sleeping, mating and defending. These are the basic animal instincts. The human body, however, provides us with developed consciousness and a degree of independence. The tiger in the jungle has no choice as to his eatables, by his bodily constitution he has to eat flesh, he is forced to do so by nature. Therefore for the tiger or any other animal there is no question of sin because the animals don’t have any choice, they are simply working according to their nature to fulfil their base desires. But human life is different. We have a certain amount of freedom to chose our activities and we have developed consciousness to ponder on the more subtle questions which should interest any sane person. Questions like: Who am I? Why am I suffering? What is the purpose of life?

It is the primary purpose of human life to find the answers to these questions, the animal demands of eating, sleeping, mating and defending have to be met also, of course, but these demands are secondary. The real purpose of human life is to make a solution to the problem of repeated birth and death in the 8,400,000 species of life and to become liberated and enter into the spiritual world to re-establish our original lost relationship with Krishna.

If, in the human form, we concentrate only on the animal needs of eating, sleeping, mating and defending then we are no better than the animals, we are two-legged animals, and our next birth will be within the animal kingdom. If we fall again into the animal species of life it is the greatest loss. This human life is a great opportunity to make an end to the cycle of birth and death and it is a very rare opportunity. If you look at the total number of living entities on this planet compared to the number of human beings you will see that human life is very rare. If we loose the human form who knows how many thousands or millions of births we may have to suffer before again getting the chance of human life.

There are four primary causes of suffering in material life: birth, old age, disease and death. These sufferings are inevitable for all of us. We don’t like to be sick, we don’t want to get old, and we certainly don’t want to die. These suffering conditions are unnatural to us because the nature of the soul is to be sat-cit-ananda, to be eternally youthful, to be full of knowledge, and to experience full pleasure. This is our natural position, but here, in the material world, we are forced to identify with a body which is mortal, full of ignorance and full of suffering. We can never actually be happy if we identify with the body, if we think, “I am an Australian man, I am a women, etc.” So human life is meant for eradicating this bodily concept and coming to the point of understanding that “I am an eternal servant of Krishna and my business is to serve Krishna.” This is the perfect conclusion and if one is convinced of this and acts as a servant of Krishna, this will be the last body he has to take in the material world. At the end of this body he will be transferred to the spiritual world never to return to this miserable place of suffering.

na tad bhasayate suryona sasanko na pavakahyad gatva na nivartantetad dhama paramam mama

“That abode of Mine is not illuminated by the sun or moon, nor by electricity. One who reaches it never returns to this material world.” (Bhagavad-gita 15.6)

(An article by Madhudvisa dasa)

Is It Compulsory for a Serious Devotee to Live in a Temple?

Is It Compulsory for a Serious Devotee to Live in a Temple?

I want to know that whether it is compulsory for a person, who is serious in Krishna Consciousness, to become a full time devotee or he can perform his duties being a congregational devotee?
Hari Bol — Srijana

Dear Srijan

Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Shree Guru & Gauranga!

I have been requested by Shreeman Madhuvisha Dasa to respond to your inquiry.

Srila Prabhupada himself said that he did not live in a Temple. When asked about devotees not living in the Temple he responded by saying that it doesn’t matter whether one lives in a temple or outside… both must follow all the rules and regulations. According to my understanding of Krishna consciousness, it is a gradual process… It is as gradual as we want to make it.

The basic principle of Krishna consciousness is hearing and chanting. This can be done inside or outside of the Temple, but hearing and chanting is best done in the association of devotees. In the absence of others association, it can be done alone, privately. But hearing and chanting about Krishna must be done every day, as much as possible.

Srila Prabhupada compared living in a temple to a businessman who does much more business at the New York Stock Exchange, rather than hundreds of miles away. He compared ISKCON temples to “the stock of exchange of devotional service.” Lord Chaitanya stressed that association of devotees is paramount in regards to making advancement in Krishna consciousness. Indeed, Srila Prabhupada created ISKCON temples just for that purpose, so that devotees would benefit from each other’s association. One may live outside of the Temple, but one must not live apart from the association of devotees. Srila Prabhupada created the ISKCON Life Membership program and Sunday Feast program especially for those potential devotees, who, due to circumstances, could not live in a Temple. Srila Prabhupada also recognized that in the future, most people would not live in a Temple. Srila Prabhupada envisioned a world in Krishna consciousness. Obviously, the entire world can not live in even all of the ISKCON Temples we already have (almost 400 world-wide). Therefore, Srila Prabhupada said that only 50% of his mission was complete. The other 50% is what he described as “varnashrama” where people, not living in an ISKCON Temple, maintain Krishna consciousness while executing their material duties.

Herein lies the essential answer to your question. Although you may not wish to live in an ISKCON Temple, you have to make your own home a Temple by following all the rules and regulations, as if you were living in a Temple. As I said at the outset, Krishna consciousness is a gradual process. That gradual process is known as yukta-vairagya and also vairagya-vidya.

First we must understand what is the ultimate goal of Krishna consciousness. Once the ultimate goal is understood, everything else falls into place naturally and automatically. The ultimate goal is to feel love of Godhead in every sphere of one’s existential living condition. Love of Godhead is achieved by hearing and chanting without offense. In order to hear and chant offenselessly, one must become detached from material sense gratification. At first one vows to strictly follow the four prohibitions, namely, no eating of meat, fish and eggs, no sex outside of marriage for procreation, no intoxication, including even coffee, tea and cigarettes, what to speak of alcohol and other intoxicants or controlled substances, and no gambling. But this is just the beginning of what is called vairagya or detachment. As one naturally progresses day by day, year by year, one learns to become disinterested in the entire materialistic way of life centered around identification with the body.

There are so many unwanted things we become entangled in simply because of identification with the body. These unwanted things are known as “anarthas”. As one progresses in Krishna consciousness one become more and more keen to root out all unnecessary engagements, attachments, and entanglements which the devotee understands by hearing and chanting are impeding his/her ultimate success in achieving love of God. Finally, one completely surrenders without reservation to Krishna and is then able to taste love of God, the highest possible state of consciousness for the living being.

Hearing and chanting, means hearing and chanting from Srila Prabhupada’s main books, namely Bhagavad-gita, Srimad-Bhagavatam, Nectar of Devotion & Chaitanya-charitamrita.

But one must do all of this in the association of other devotees. So if one does not live in a temple, one must find time to associate with devotees either by visiting the Temple, or attending functions in other’s homes where devotees congregate. Here in Southern California I conduct weekend seminars at different peoples’ homes where this hearing and chanting is done from 2-4 hours. I also do not live in a Temple, but following Srila Prabhupada’s instructions, I make sure that every weekend, I am in the association of devotees.

I hope this answers your inquiry. If you have any further questions, please email me directly.

krishne matir astu

Posted By: Nirantara dasa

Not By Chance: There Is A Plan

Prabhupada with hare krisna Children

Just like in the airport, as soon as I step on the door it becomes opened. It is not chance. A child will see it is a chance: “Oh, how it is? I wanted to go and the door is already open.” He takes it a chance. That is poor fund of knowledge. There is arrangement, nice arrangement, electrical arrangement. So to a poor fund of knowledge it becomes a chance, and to the sober mind it is not chance; it is arranged by higher authority.

Room Conversation – April 1, 1972, Sydney

Pradyumna: “Chance.” It’s a noun and adjective. “One: The way things fall out. Fortune, undesigned occurrence, opportunity, possibility, probability. Especially in plural, as ‘the chances are against him.’ Absence of design or discoverable cause. Course of events regarded as a power, fate. ‘By chance’: as it falls or fell out; without design. ‘On the chance’: in view of the possibility. ‘Take one’s chance’: let things go as they may. Consent to take what comes.”

Prabhupada: So it can be adjusted with the meanings of chance and necessity. I want something; that is my necessity. And it will come by chance? Or I have to endeavor for it, and then I get it? Shall I depend on chance? I have a necessity for something. So should I wait for the chance?

Syamasundara: We’ve always been taught, “No. You must work very hard toward…”

Prabhupada: So where is the waiting for chance? There is plan. If I have to work, to get the thing, then it is plan.

Pradyumna: If they follow their philosophy to the conclusion, they would have to be completely dependent, if they followed the philosophy to the conclusion.

Prabhupada: If the chance comes as soon as the necessity is there, then we have to admit immediately God.

Syamasundara: Yes. Oh.

Prabhupada: Because in the Bhagavad-gita we hear, mattah smrtir jnanam apohanam that God is in everyone’s heart as Supersoul. Now, I am thinking of getting something. So God knows immediately that “He wants to have this,” so He gives me the necessary thing which appears to me as chance, without knowing God. The things are supplied by God because He is giving me all facilities to enjoy this material world to my heart’s content by supplying all the ingredients. That is the material condition. So these foolish persons are taking as chance, but it is not chance. God is omnipotent. As soon as He understands that I want this, He gives me some facility so that I get it. So it is not chance. It is by arrangement of superior authority. But because they are atheists, they have no sense of God consciousness, they are taking as chance, that necessity creates that chance; automatically it is coming. Not automatically. Chance does not mean automatically. I cannot see something, but all of a sudden falls… Just like I am hungry, I want some food. So Krsna knows it that you want some… Some way or other, the food comes to me. So it is the arrangement of Krsna, but I see it is chance: “I was hungry and by chance the food has come.” That is my less intelligence. It is not chance; it is plain. Otherwise you cannot adjust the meaning of chance in that way, that as soon as there is necessity, immediately the opportune chance comes before us.

Syamasundara: They say, “Well, it’s my luck,” or “My bad luck.”

Prabhupada: Yes. They say. So this “luck,” as soon as you say, “luck” there must be somebody who is giving you the luck, good luck or bad luck.

Syamasundara: One man may desire something very badly, and his whole life long he will not get it. He will always say, “I am so unlucky.”

Prabhupada: Because he is not fit to get it, so God does not supply it. So we do not take anything as chance. We take everything as plan. But because God’s omnipotency is so subtle, we cannot see how things happen. Therefore we say “It is a chance, chance of physical arrangement.” Just like in the airport, as soon as I step on the door it becomes opened. It is not chance. A child will see it is a chance: “Oh, how it is? I wanted to go and the door is already open.” He takes it a chance. That is poor fund of knowledge. There is arrangement, nice arrangement, electrical arrangement. So to a poor fund of knowledge it becomes a chance, and to the sober mind it is not chance; it is arranged by higher authority. Another opposite point is nobody wants to die. Why the chance of death comes? Nobody wants to die. If that argument is taken, necessity- I want to die, and the death comes- then it is applicable. But I do not want to die. Why death comes? There is no necessity of my death, but why the death comes? Then where this argument will be?

Syamasundara: Oh, there’s no necessity. There’s no necessity for death?

Prabhupada: Yes. Nobody wants to die. So why death comes?

Syamasundara: But they will say that because it is physically worn out, finished, material is finished, then it will die.

Prabhupada: That’s all right. It is a question of chance and necessity. Nobody feels the necessity of death. Why death comes unless it is planned?

Syamasundara: Oh, I see.

Prabhupada: Their argument is that physical necessity creates a chance, and we take advantage of the chance. But here there is no necessity. Nobody wants to die, nobody wants disease. Why these chances are coming to us without any necessity?

Syamasundara: If, for instance, in nature they saw a tree growing, they would say that by necessity this tree must die in order to replenish the soil so more trees can grow.

Prabhupada: Then there is plan. As soon as you say that more trees can grow, that means there is plan. You cannot say chance.

Syamasundara: Nature can’t be chance. If so many plants…

Prabhupada: That plan is Krsna’s. That is said in the Bhagavad-gita, mayadhyaksena prakrtih suyate sa-caracaram: [Bg. 9.10] “Under My plan, under My superintendence, the nature is working. The changes of the world is going on for that reason.” Hetunanena kaunteya jagad viparivartate: “All these changes are taking place on account of My supervision.” So there is no question of chance. It is all planned, planned by the Supreme, daiva netrena, by superior arrangement.

Syamasundara: Doesn’t necessity mean plan?

Prabhupada: Necessity means for a foolish person like me, I want something. That is my necessity and God supplies me. “Man proposes, God disposes.” And that reception, or that, my achievement, being without explained by me, I take it as a chance. Because I cannot explain it, therefore I take… Just like the same example: the flower is fructifying. We are saying because we do not see how the working is going on.

Syamasundara: Like you defined miracle like that before once.

Prabhupada: Yes. So there is nothing like miracle. Everything is done. But it is done so subtle way that we cannot understand. We take it chance. The same example: just like a child steps before the door; it opens. He thinks, “Oh, by chance the door is opened.” But it is not by chance. It is a plan.

Syamasundara: By necessity.

Prabhupada: Yes. No. Necessity you have to go and it is already done. And as soon as you step on the floor, the door opens. So those who are less intelligent, they are taking it as chance that “I came here. I wanted to go out. The door is by chance open.” That is less intelligence.

Syamasundara: Oh. So before the necessity there is a plan. Previous to the necessity there is a plan. I see.

Prabhupada: No, before the necessity, whoever we feel necessity, the chance is there. The arrangement is there. He knows that… Just like there may be hundreds and thousands of necessities, and for each necessity there is a planned performance.

Syamasundara: There is that saying, “Where there is a will there is a way.”

Prabhupada: But we… You can think of this willingness in different hundred and thousands of ways. That is known to God, and there is already plan. If somebody wills like that, the chance is given. This is plan.

Syamasundara: Oh. That’s right.

Prabhupada: Because God knows beyond this willing orbit, nobody can think of. Just like Hiranyakasipu. He thought that “I can save myself by this way. I shall not die night, in daytime, or I shall not die in the sky. I shall not die in the water. I shall not die on land. No man can kill me. No animal can kill me. No demigod can kill me.” In this way he thought, “Oh.” But still, keeping all the promises, he was made to die. So there is no such thing as chance without plan.

Syamasundara: This dictionary gives a definition of necessity. It says that it is a constraint or compulsion regarded as a law prevailing through the material universe and governing all human action.

Prabhupada: Yes. Governing all human action. God knows how many necessities you can create. And for all of them the supply is there. But you do not know, you take it as chance it has come. It is your foolishness that whatever necessities may be… God knows that so many necessities can be. It may be millions types. And for all of them there is immediately supply. So this rascal does not know that it is already planned. [break] The proprietor is living there. The servants are living there. The cats and dogs are also living there. The trees and plants are also living there, and insects and microbes and snakes and rats. So many living entities in the same building. Why they are different? What is the answer? They have been given the same chance of living in the same house, born in the same house. As the proprietor’s son is born in the same house, these also, they are also taking birth the same place. Why they are denied the same advantage? And if they are denied, who has denied it? What is the answer to this question? They are all living entities.

Bhurijana: The difference is that the human living entities have higher intelligence because of their body.

Prabhupada: That is the question, that “Who has given you high intelligence and not to the rats and cats?”

Pradyumna: You said in one place, “Man is the architect of his own happiness and distress.”

Prabhupada: Yes. Yes. That is an axiomatic truth even by the modern man. Yes, that “Man is the architect of his own fortune.” So as soon as there is work to make your fortune, then there must be a person to decide to give you a fortunate position. Just like in an establishment, so many men are working, but there is a president. He is considering the work file, “How this man has worked?” And he is being promoted, his salary is being increased, and somebody is degraded, no promotion, rather, transferred in some other place. So natural conclusion is when there are so many varieties of life in our presence and they are, although in the same place, they haven’t got the same facility, so there must be somebody who decides on this point. So how you can deny God? Our point is the Supreme Person, the president, who decides on this fact, He is God. What is the opposite answer?

Pradyumna: They would say that you are in your position and they are in their position just by chance, just like…

Prabhupada: That is nonsense. This is sheer nonsense. There is nothing by chance. What is that chance? By chance one is becoming millionaire, and a chance, one is becoming cockroaches. What is that chance? Explain that chance. It is evasive. It is most foolish reply, “Chance.” We have got this nice apartment. Is it by chance?

Pradyumna: No.

Prabhupada: Then?

Bhurijana: There’s never an example of chance.

Prabhupada: This is all nonsense. People are befooled by all this philosophy.

Bhurijana: Albert Einstein, he said that “I cannot believe that the highest material principle is chance.” He’s a material scientist. He said, “I cannot believe…”

Prabhupada: Yes. Yes. Oh, yes. Actually, if one is actually learned, scientific, he must admit. He must admit, unless he is a lunatic, rascal. He will say all these nonsense things, “Chance.” Why chance? What is taking place within your practical experience by chance? If by prearrangement we would not come here, then who would care for it? Even on the street we could not lie down. Nobody allow. the police will arrest. “Who are these men?” How do you say chance? Everything is done by prearrangement. The chance is an explanation given by the rascals and fools. They are not sane men. There cannot be anything by chance. We got up on the train, and the train is running, and it is all chance? There is a huge management behind the train. Therefore we are comfortably seated, and we come to the destination right in the time. All these are chances? What is that…? He has written such a big book. What is his reason that chance? What reason he has given? I have not read. You have read?

Pradyumna: No.

Syamasundara: Well, necessity…

Prabhupada: Necessity means I arrange. There was a necessity to come to this city, so he arranged. So how it is chance?

Syamasundara: Their answer is that there was a necessity to go to the city, so we would have tried hundreds of different ways to come here, and by chance, eventually we would have found…

Prabhupada: No. We have not tried hundreds of others. There was a plan.

Sudama: But even where does… In my mind, if I hear the word chance, where does chance, how does chance come about, if there is such a thing?

Prabhupada: No. The rascal says that I am trying in so many ways; one of them by chance becomes… But I am not working in so many ways. We had a plan, to come here, to preach. So according to that plan, we arranged with this man, and it is not chance. It is all prearranged. Where is that I am trying this way or that way? We are going to preach. There is a plan. So our men go before my reaching there and they make nice arrangement, nice apartment. Then they receive me. These are not chances. This is all prearranged plan.

Bhurijana: They say that… But they don’t acknowledge the plan.

Prabhupada: Why they don’t acknowledge? Everything is being done by plan. The rascal who is speaking like that, he is educated by a plan, by his parents. And therefore he is able now to talk nonsense and get the Nobel Prize, for talking all these rascals. His education was planned.

Sudama: Just like his book was planned, so now he is given the Nobel Prize. He won’t say, “By chance I won.”

Prabhupada: Yes. His plan to misguide the people, that is a plan.

Bhurijana: They say that change is the principle. They say that change is the highest principle and out of so many different changes…

Prabhupada: No. How the change takes place?

Bhurijana: Change. Change. C-h-a-n-g-e.

Prabhupada: Change, I say. How the changes take place? You are changing. You are changing from your childhood to boyhood, boyhood to youthhood. So there is a plan. Unless there is plan, why one child is not, by chance, becomes immediately old. What the nonsense will reply? Let the rascal reply this, that here is a chance, that one child immediately becomes old man, by chance. Why there is process? This is plan. So you should have depth of knowledge, otherwise you will be carried away by these rascals. We cannot be carried away by these rascals. We never so easily believed that they are going to the moon planet. You see? We have to scrutinize everything. Yes. That is brahminical qualification. A brahmana will not accept anything simply because it is said by some rascal. A sudra will accept because he has no intelligence. That is the difference between brahmana and sudra. It is not a caste system. It is classi…, guna karma vibhagasah, division of high qualities and actual activities according to that quality. They misinterpreted. Because by the influence of Kali-yuga everyone is sudra, so he does not know what is the actually brahminical qualification.

Therefore there is, I mean to say, competition: “Why this man should be done?(known?) I am as good as he is, and why he should be called brahmana? He should be given greater facility?” So actually it has happened so. A so-called brahmana, caste brahmana, he is working his intelligence like sudra, and he is claiming, by birthright, brahmana. There must be protest. This has happened. Otherwise, that division is perfect, guna karma vibhagasah. Anyone who comes to that quality, he becomes brahmana. That is the injunction of the sastra. Krsna says guna karma vibhagasah. You have no qualification, you do not work according to your quality, and why you are claiming a brahmana? That is self-evident. Guna karma vibhaga. He never said by birth, never said. Kalau sudra-sambhavah. “In this age, Kali-yuga, all sudras.” Therefore they accept everything cheaply and at once, the sudras.

Syamasundara: Cheaply and at once?

Prabhupada: At once. Yes. The newspaper said that “Mr. such and such went to moon planet.” Oh, immediately believe. See? A newspaper, ten cent worth newspaper. And in the Bhagavad-gita Krsna says, yanti deva vrata devan: [Bg. 9.25] “One who can… One can go to the demigods planets by worshiping them. You can go, yanti deva vrata devan, as others. Similarly, one can come to Me by worshiping Me.” Mad yajino ‘pi yanti mam. So they never worshiped Chandra, and how they can go to the Chandra planet, or moon planet? Then Krsna is false. Krsna is imperfect. They become perfect. They are defying Krsna’s instruction. They have gone to moon planet. Then our whole propaganda, Krsna consciousness, becomes bogus. Therefore I always protest.

Sudama: They have not gone.

Prabhupada: They have not gone. We have got our tests. I am speaking from the very beginning, “They have not gone.” And practically you see, even if you have gone, what utility you have made? They are simply planning, again planning. “We shall get petrol from there. We shall have defense from there.” Simply bluffing, simply bluffing. The Americans will go to the moon planet to defend his country from the Russians. Just see. And we have to believe all these nonsense proposals. What defense they will do from there? Is it not the proposal? Yes.

Syamasundara: This morning you were saying that civilization means peace. So this is not civilization.

Prabhupada: This is no civilization.

Bhurijana: We must become convinced. [break]

Prabhupada: Bhaktivinoda Thakura said, jada-vidya jato mayara vaibhava tomara bhajane badha, anitya somsare moha janamiya jibake karaye gadha. Jada-vidya, this material advancement, jada vidya, they are simply stumbling blocks for advancing in Krsna consciousness. The more one is enamored by this so-called material advancement, the more he is disqualified to advance in Krsna consciousness. Because time we have got limited. If we waste our time for so-called material advantages, then we spoil our time. We cannot utilize the time for Krsna consciousness, which is the necessity of human life.

Therefore, in the history of India there is opulence, but that opulence is of different kind. By nature they used to enjoy life- enough jewels, enough gold, enough silk, enough food, enough metals. You see? By natural product. They could find where there is a big hill of gold only. These are there. And actually gold is found in some mine within the material arrangement. Why there should not be any hill of gold? As there are hills of stone, and marble, why not gold? You do not know. Your utensils are only plastic. It is worth nothing. So that was their material advancement. Gold, silver, jewels, corals, sapphire, diamond. Just see Krsna’s palace described. Not these rascal chairs, cushions, but with ivory, gold. And the cushion is as soft as the foam of milk. (laughter) These things are description there. And the rooms are bedecked with jewels. You don’t require this electric light at night. And outside these parijata flowers. You have read all this?

Pradyumna: Mandara-kunda.

Prabhupada: So was this material advancement less than this? And this is description of five thousand years ago. So here in Tokyo Kobe, in Japan there is so much industrials. We find the common man, 99% they are living on matchboxes. That’s all. How many men are living in this nice apartment? The common man is living in matchbox. So this is not material advancement. A few people exploiting them in their factory. They are working and they are living in this nice building. But the common man is living in matchbox houses. We traveled these three hundred miles, or four hundred miles. We saw simply 99% matchboxes. What do you think, Bhanu? Is it not?

Bhanu: Yes, Srila Prabhupada.

Prabhupada: Then where is your advancement? You supply everyone palatial building like this. Why they are living in the matchboxes? Why they are eating cats and dogs? One thing, if you don’t believe in God, then you give them. But you cannot give. Then who has given them? Nobody wants to live in the matchbox. Why he is living in the matchbox and you are living in a nice house? Is it all a chance? He is not struggling? He is not making his plan that “I shall also live.” Just like the Communists. But he could not. We went to Moscow. They have no nice building made by the Communist people. All big, big, old buildings that is made, constructed by Czar. Not a single building I saw which was constructed by the Communist government.

Syamasundara: They all live in matchboxes too.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Sudama: In Russia?

Prabhupada: Yes. And they are advertising equal facility to everyone, to the worker. The worker is still working. They are going, still walking on the street to go to the factory. So in this way the whole civilization is going on simply by bluffing. And because men are made sudra class, they are believing. They are accepting this bluff. This is the position. Besides that, if you… Even if you are able to give everyone nice buildings and nice motor car… Already a few motor cars you have got, there is scarcity of space. From practical point of view. 99% of the population, they do not possess. Or say 50%. So already 50% men possessing motor cars, it has created problem. Where to park the motor car? How to supply petrol.

Syamasundara: In America now practically everyone has a house and a car. But now the problem is no one wants to work.

Prabhupada: That’s it. (laughs) Just see. And he is satisfied to remain as urchin, the hippies.

Devotees: Yes.

Prabhupada: They feel pleasure to remain as an urchin.

Sudama: As their father supplies them with money and motor car.

Pradyumna: He built this house, and this house had a very nice view over the whole place. But another man built another building here. And now the view is… Right next to, he built this building. That’s why this apartment is vacant.

Syamasundara: No one will live here. The apartments are vacant.

Sudama: He’s losing money.

Syamasundara: Someone has built in front of him.

Pradyumna: He had view over whole city. This was the biggest building, I think, and he said he had view everywhere. Now someone built one right up, right next to him.

Bhurijana: In the United States, the most amazing thing is that everyone is envious. The general population is envious of the hippies because they all want to do that. The ones who are working so hard, they want to be the ones who are just getting fed and do nothing and enjoy sex. But then when the hippies have it, they say bad things about them.

Prabhupada: What is that? I could not…

Bhurijana: The advancement of civilization is leading to just sense gratification.

Prabhupada: Yes. Material civilization means sense gratification. That’s all.

Bhurijana: So the hippies have this sense gratification and all the people who are working so hard, they are envious of them, and they use that for their advertising.

Prabhupada: We say in our sastras that this sense gratification facility is there to the hogs and dogs, better sense gratification. If you have to enjoy sex life, you’ll have to find out some room. Either you go to a hotel or have your own apartment, otherwise you cannot have sex life on the street, although you are too much lusty. But you have to arrange for it. But the dogs and hogs, they have no such restriction. Immediately “Come on. Let us enjoy.” So they are better, in better position for sense gratification.

Sudama: So better to become and hog and dog.

Prabhupada: Yes. The hog… The hog has no restriction, mother, sister or anyone. You have seen? The child hog is raising on the body of the mother, although a child. They are so sexually inclined. Sometimes they are having sexual intercourse with the mother. So you take this facility. If you want better facility for sex life, just become hog. So nature is giving the facility. “All right, come on. You eat anything without discrimination. Here is stool. And you can have sex life without any discrimination, your mother or sister. Come on.”

Syamasundara: So the hippies have adopted that philosophy, hog philosophy.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Syamasundara: They have sex life anywhere, anytime, anyone.

Prabhupada: Why? There are so many books. They are advocating that “You can have sex life. It doesn’t matter whether it is mother or sister or daughter. Why should be restriction there? It is bodily necessity. That’s all.” They are advocating. There are so many books. You do not know? Huh?

Sudama: Yes, there are.

Prabhupada: Yes, there are books. In India, what to speak of other, in India some European or American book was written on the theme that a man fell in love with his daughter. And that book is the greatest, highest selling book. What is that book? You know?

Syamasundara: Lolita? There was one, Lolita it was called, about…

Sudama: The same theme.

Syamasundara: The same theme.

Sudama: It was also very popular in America.

Syamasundara: One of the most popular books of all. Some man and a twelve year old niece, nephew, daughter?

Pradyumna: Adopted daughter. Step-daughter.

Prabhupada: Adopted daughter, niece, we have practically seen. I knew one man, Gupta. Guru dasa met him in Delhi. So he was old man, about four years younger than me, very rich man. So I used to visit sometimes his house. He was friendly. So one day I saw one young girl. So I enquired, “Who is this young girl?” “No, she is my adopted daughter. I have no…” He had no daughters, all sons, grown up. “So I have no daughter, so I have adopted her as my daughter.” I thought, “That’s all right.” Some day after, one day I went there. I saw that his wife was not there. So his wife has left home on some complaint. And then I understood that that man was implicated with that daughter. So the wife, under protest, has left. There are many rascals who open girls’ schools with the contract with the head mistress that she will supply young girls. Convent school. This is going on. So all these greatness are terminating in sex life and they are making arrangement, plan, and he says there is no plan. Even for his ordinary living he is making plan, and he says there is no plan.

Syamasundara: So because they want better and better sex life, they have to compete and get better and better apartments. Because the nice girls will not go to the shabby apartments. They will only go to a nice apartments.

Prabhupada: Oh. Night girls.

Syamasundara: Nice girls, nicer, more beautiful girls will only go to the most beautiful apartment. So there is competition.

Sudama: Everyone is competing. Now the girls, they want handsome man, so man is trying to get his face fixed and buy new clothes.

Prabhupada: Trying to keep himself young.

Sudama: Trying to keep himself young, yes.

Bhurijana: So we must propagate your message very loud. Very loud. We must sing Hare Krsna very loud so everyone can hear. Hare Krsna. (end)

Prabhupada Speaks At Harvard University

 Harvard University

So this Krsna consciousness movement is not any sectarian movement. It is practically postgraduate movement of all religion. Any religion, they have got some idea of God. But here, we are explaining what is God, how great He is, how you can establish your relationship with Him. . .

[Lecture at Harvard University, Cambridge, MA, Dec. 24th 1969]

Prabhupada: Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, I thank you very much for joining us in this evening of chanting together Hare Krsna. The sankirtana movement is a prescribed performance in this age. In the Srimad-Bhagavatam, Eleventh Canto, Ninth Chapter, 6th verse, there is a statement that,

krsna-varnam tvisa-krsnamsangopangastra-parsadamyajnair sankirtana-prayairyajanti hi su-medhasah

Su-medhasah, this Sanskrit word, means intelligent persons. Medhas. Medhas means brain substance, one who has got very good brain substance. The brain substance… According to psychology, there is difference of brain substance. Not the brain substance equally, of equal weight, in every man’s brain. You know, you are all educated students, psychology students. In our boyhood when we were a student in psychology class, Dr. Urquhart explained this brain substance. The man has got the highest brain substance—not all—up to sixty-four ounce. And woman has got the highest up to thirty-six or thirty-four. Of course, we are not discussing that point. Our movement is a spiritual movement, Krsna consciousness. That is beyond brain. Indriyani parany ahur indriyebhyah param manah, manasas tu para buddhir [Bg. 3.42]. So there are different platforms and status of consciousness. Bodily consciousness means sensual consciousness. Above that, there is mental consciousness, speculative, philosophical, poetic. Above that, intellectual consciousness. And Krsna consciousness—above intellectual consciousness.

So the recommendation is… That was a topic between Maharaja Nimi and great sages called nine sages, navayogindra. Nava means nine. Yogindra means mystic yogis. So they were talking, and Maharaja Nimi questioned the different incarnations in different ages. And Camasa Muni was replying. In that replying, he said that in the Kali-yuga, in this age… This age called Kali-yuga. This Kali-yuga has begun about five thousand years ago. So he said, “In the Kali-yuga the process of self-realization is sankirtana movement.” Sankirtana. Sankirtana means bahudha, bahubhir militva. When congregational chanting is done, that is called sankirtana. So in this age the sankirtana movement is recommended. There is no question of what is your religion, what is my religion.

Everyone can join in this sankirtana movement, without any discrimination. That is the recommendation. Yajnair sankirtana. This is also yajna, sacrifice. You are sacrificing some time, your valuable time, in joining with us to perform the sankirtana movement. That is a sacrifice. And sacrifice means to please the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Yajna. Yajna is the name of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. In the Bhagavad-gita it is said, yajnarthat karma anyatra karma-bandhanah. Whatever you have to act, you have to act on the basis of pleasing the Supreme Lord.

In the Srimad-Bhagavata there is another verse, that,

atah pumbhir dvija-sresthavarnasrama-vibhagasahsvanusthitasya dharmasyasamsiddhir hari-tosanam[SB 1.2.13]

Sri Suta Gosvami is addressing the learned sages assembled in a place called Naimisaranya. That place is still existing in India, in northern India. It is very old place. Now the place is named Nimsar, but original name is Naimisaranya. So in that Naimisaranya meeting, the president, Suta Gosvami, addressed the brahmanas. He said, atah pumbhir dvija-srestha. Dvija-srestha means in that assembly the high-class brahmanas, very intelligent class of men, they assembled. So he addressed them, “My dear learned scholars, brahmanas, the duty of the human society,” atah pumbhir dvija-srestha varnasrama-vibhagasah… The duties are different according to different divisions of social order and spiritual order. That is Vedic civilization.

There are four kinds of social orders and four kinds of spiritual orders. The social orders are the brahmanas, the ksatriyas, the vaisyas, and the sudras; or the intellectual class of men… Brahmana means intellectual class of men—one who devotes his life only in studying Vedas and acquiring knowledge and distributing that. Every time, in every age, there is a class of men who are intellectual class. So this intellectual class of men is called brahmana. And the next class, the administrative class. Those who takes part in politics for administration of the state, government, they are called ksatriyas. The actual meaning of ksatriya is “one who protects a man from being hurt by others.” That is called ksatriya. That means, that is the business of the administrators, government. So brahmana, ksatriya, then vaisyas. Vaisyas means productive class who are interested in producing things for consumption by the people. Mercantile class, industrialists, they are called vaisyas. And the last class, fourth class, they are called sudras. Sudras means that they are neither intellectual, nor they’re administrator, nor industrial or mercantile, but they can serve others. That’s all.

So it is said that kalau sudra sambhava. In the modern age, people are being taught in the university to become sudra—neither brahmanas nor ksatriyas nor vaisyas, generally. Because after education, they will have to seek after some service. He becomes a great technologist, but unless he gets a good job, his whole education is spoiled. You see? So therefore, in the Vedic sastra it is said, in this age people are almost all sudras. Kalau sudra sambhava. So the president of that meeting, Suta Gosvami, said that it doesn’t matter whether one man is brahmana or a ksatriya or a vaisya or a sudra. This is social order. And then spiritual order: brahmacari, grhastha, vanaprastha, and sannyasa. Brahmacari means student, unmarried student, without any sex life. That is brahmacari. And then grhastha, householder. Those who are living with wife and children, they are called householder, grhastha. Then vanaprastha, the retired persons. And then sannyasa. After retirement, one dedicates his whole life for preaching work, preaching Krsna consciousness. That is sannyasa order. So this is…

These four divisions are in the spiritual order, and the other divisions are in the social order. Human society without these eight divisions—means social divisions and spiritual divisions—it is not called civilized. They must have. Therefore Suta Gosvami said, the social orders are there, and the spiritual orders are there, and each and every order, there are prescribed duties. The brahmanas, they are engaged in such and such things, the brahmacaris are engaged in such and such thing, the ksatriyas are engaged… There are different prescribed duties. Now Suta Gosvami says that varnasrama-vibhagasah. There are divisions of duties and divisions of social and spiritual order. That’s all right.

But how one can understand that by executing his duty, he’s going to the path of perfection? Everyone should be confident that whatever he is doing, he’s doing for the perfection of life. That should be the aim of. In the modern education system, not only education system, in every field of life, practically we do not know what is the ultimate goal of life. Na te viduh svartha-gatim hi visnum durasaya ye bahir-artha-maninah [SB 7.5.31]. They do not know what is the goal of life. The goal of life is Visnu, or the Supreme Lord, or God. That one has to understand what is the Supreme Lord, what is Absolute Truth, “What is my relationship with Him and what is my duty towards Him?” These things are to be known, and one has to adjust his life in that way. So Suta Gosvami says, never mind in whatever order one may be situated, the perfection is samsiddhir hari-tosanam [SB 1.2.13]. Atah varnasrama-vibhagasah dvija-srestha svanusthitasya dharmasya. One should try to test, “How my duties are being perfectly done?” That one has to see.

So that perfection is recommended, hari-tosanam: whether by your duty, by your action, the Supreme Lord is satisfied. Just like we want to satisfy… In the schools, colleges, we want to satisfy our professor, teachers, principal. Or as good citizen we want to satisfy our government or… Similarly, you have to satisfy somebody. That is the perfection. The highest perfection is to satisfy hari-tosanam. Hari means the Supreme Lord, and tosanam means satisfaction. Whether by your work and duties, discharging your duty, the Supreme Lord is satisfied—that is your perfection. But this is very rare thing. At the present moment practically nobody has any information what is his relationship with God or what is God. Practically, they are declaring “God is dead,” and “I am God, you are God, everyone is God.” These things are all… “There is void.” “There is no God,” “There is no control.” So, so many things are going on. That is the disease of this present age. And this movement is practically against this idea of godlessness, this Krsna consciousness movement. The whole idea of this Krsna consciousness movement is to fight against the idea of godlessness.

So the Bhagavad-gita is there. We are fighting in two ways. One way is that this chanting, Hare Krsna. Very simple thing. Everyone can join: Hare Krsna, Hare Krsna, Krsna Krsna, Hare Hare/ Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare. By chanting this movement, by the vibration, gradually one’s heart, which is so contaminated that he is denying the existence of God, will be gradually simplified or clarified. Ceto-darpana-marjanam [Cc. Antya 20.12]. Just like the mirror, when it is overcast with dust, you cannot see your face nicely. But if you clear the dust you can see clearly. Similarly, our, this disease, denial of God, or “God is dead,” “There is no God,” “I am God,” “You are God,” such kinds of conception is due to covering of material dust on the mirror of our heart. Ceto-darpana-marjanam. If you simply chant this transcendental vibration, Hare Krsna, Hare Krsna, Krsna Krsna, Hare Hare/ Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare, you don’t require any qualification and you don’t require that you have to become intellectual man or an administrator or a productive man or… Never mind whatever you are. You be situated in your place, but you try to chant this Hare Krsna, Hare Krsna, Krsna Krsna, Hare Hare. The result will be that your heart, the dust on the mirror of your heart, will be gradually cleansed. And when it is completely cleansed, then you will understand that you are not this body. Ceto-darpana-marjanam bhava-maha-davagni-nirvapanam [Cc. Antya 20.12].

All the problems of our life, whatever you may say, social, political, religious and whatever… There are so many problems. The whole material world is full of problems. These problems are compared just like blazing fire in the forest. Just like in the forest, there is fire, nobody can check. Although nobody goes to the forest to set fire, it takes automatically. Similarly, in this material existence of life, we do not want any problem, but problems are created. Just like automatically there is fire in the forest without our endeavor, similarly, material problems are created automatically by our dealings, by our behavior.

So if you chant this Hare Krsna mantra, the first result will be that you will understand your real constitutional position, for which many great mystics, sages and saints are meditating, “What I am?” That, I mean to say, procedure of spiritual realization will be the first installment, your profit. You’ll understand that aham brahmasmi, “I am not matter, I am spirit soul.” And as it is stated in the Bhagavad-gita, as soon as one is self-realized, that is called brahma-bhutah. Aham brahmasmi: “I am not this body, I am spirit soul. I am part and parcel of the Absolute Truth.” This realization is called Brahman realization. And as soon as you come to the platform of Brahman realization, then the result will be brahma-bhutah prasannatma [Bg. 18.54]. You’ll be joyful. You’ll be free of all anxieties. Brahma-bhutah prasannatma. That is the sign. It is not that simply… I may advertise that I am self-realized, but my behavior will show whether I am self-realized or not.

Everything is stated in the Vedic literature, that a brahma-bhutah person, a self-realized person, the symptom of the self-realized person is that he is joyful. Brahma-bhutah prasannatma [Bg. 18.54]. Without any anxieties. This materialistic life means full of anxiety always. And spiritual life means without this anxiety. Just the opposite. Brahma-bhutah prasannatma. And what is the symptom of being joyful? That is also stated: na socati na kanksati. There is no lamentation for loss, and there is no hankering for gain. Everyone in this material world is hankering after some gain. And if you have got some gain, if it is lost, then he’s lamenting, “Oh, I have lost so much.” So these two business… Hankering, when we do not possess, we hanker. And when we possess, it is lost. Because everything… The material waves are such that whatever we possess, we shall lose it. We have got this nice body, one day we have to lose it. Everything. You possess and lose, possess and lose. Therefore the…, punah punas car…, the same thing repeatedly: gaining and losing, and lamenting and hankering, lamenting and hankering. This is the position of material life.

So in the Bhagavad-gita it is said that brahma-bhutah prasannatma na socati na kanksati [Bg. 18.54]. As soon as you come to that platform, prasanna, joyfulness, then samah sarvesu bhutesu. The next stage is that you look everyone on the same level. There is no distinction between black and white or the Indian or American or Russian or this and that. No. Panditah sama-darsinah [Bg. 5.18]. One who is actually learned, he sees everyone on the same level of spiritual understanding. So brahma-bhutah prasannatma na socati na kanksati samah sarvesu bhutesu. This is the stage of acquiring Krsna consciousness.

brahma-bhutah prasannatmana socati na kanksatisamah sarvesu bhutesumad-bhaktim labhate param[Bg. 18.54]

Then he comes to the standard of Krsna consciousness, or platform of Krsna consciousness, when he can begin his duties in transcendental lovings towards the Absolute Truth. And when we begin that activity, that spiritual activity, then we can understand, bhaktya mam abhijanati [Bg. 18.55], what is God. These are the stages. We cannot understand by speculative method. God is unlimited, and we are very limited. Our knowledge is limited because our senses, the instruments by which we acquire knowledge, that is imperfect and limited. Just like my eyes. I cannot see perfectly. I cannot see the eyelid. I cannot see the distant place. Although I am very proud that “I want to see face to face,” but what you can see? What is your value of your instrument, seeing? That is imperfect. Therefore we cannot get perfect knowledge by these imperfect senses. By sense perception, by direct utilization of our senses, we cannot get perfect knowledge. The perfect knowledge you can get when your senses have been purified to the perfect order. Then you can see.

So that stage is brahma-bhutah prasannatma [Bg. 18.54]. When you are on the brahma-bhutah, or spiritual, self-realization platform, then your senses are purified and you can see things in two perspectives. And at that stage, you can see God also. You can talk with God also. Just like in the Brahma-samhita it is stated, premanjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena santah sadaiva hrdayesu vilokayanti [Bs. 5.38]. You have… Most of you know the yoga. The yoga system means to see the Supreme Person, or the Absolute Truth, or the Personality of Godhead, Visnu, within your heart. That is the perfection of yoga. Dhyanavasthita-tad-gatena manasa pasyanti yam… Dhyanavasthita, by meditation, one can see. So this perfectional stage can be achieved when you are in the brahma-bhutah stage, Brahman realization stage.

So Lord Caitanya said that if you chant this Hare Krsna mantra, the first installment of your gain will be that your heart, which is contaminated now with so many materialistic dust, it will be cleansed. And next stage will be bhava-maha-davagni-nirvapanam. That means you’ll realize yourself that “I am not this matter, I am soul. And my relationship with God is this. God is like this.” And gradually, you will develop your love for God. You have got that love. Dormant love is there, but because we do not know what is God, because we do not see the beauty of God, because we do not know the mercy of God, therefore our love has been forced or placed in the dog. Instead of God, we have placed our love on dog. So we have to simply change. Our love is distributed in the matter in so many ways. That will not make me happy because I am not matter. I am a spirit soul. I have to transfer my love towards the Supreme Spirit, God, then I’ll be happy.

So this Krsna consciousness movement is a process by which you can transform your love from matter to God. That’s all. You have got love but you are being frustrated. You are being frustrated. You are being baffled. Your love is not placed in the proper place. Therefore we have to make our choice, “Where I shall place my love?” Then I’ll be satisfied. That is replied in the Srimad-Bhagavatam,

sa vai pumsam paro dharmoyato bhaktiradhoksajeahaituky apratihatayayatma suprasidati[SB 1.2.6]

Atma, self. Everyone is seeking after peacefulness, peacefulness of atma, or self. So this is the process recommended. Not recommended, it is the fact, that sa vai pumsam paro dharmo [SB 1.2.6]. In whatever occupation you are situated, doesn’t matter. You have to see simply whether by your occupation the Supreme Lord is satisfied, or your love for the Supreme Lord is increasing. That is the test of perfection. And when your love is increased in that way, adhoksaje ahaituki—ahaituki means without any cause, without any reason, and apratihata, without any impediment—then you’ll see yayatma suprasidati. Your atma is fully satisfied. Svamin krtartho ’smi. “My dear Lord, I am now fully satisfied. I have no more any demand.” The material world, material life, means simply demands, increasing the demands. That is the modern way of life, increasing artificial demand and being frustrated. That is our life. But if you want satisfaction, not frustration, not bafflement, then increase your love for God. And the process is very simple, recommended in this age. You haven’t got to perform any severe austerity, penance, or you have got to go to the forest or Himalayan mountain or you have to do this, that. Nothing. You be situated in your place, whatever you may be. But if you simply chant this mantra, Hare Krsna, Hare Krsna, Krsna Krsna, Hare Hare/ Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare, you will gradually develop.

Your first, the first installment will be that your heart will be cleansed of all material contamination. Then you’ll be situated on the brahma-bhutah stage. Oh, prasannatma! Oh, joyfulness! Without being joyful, you cannot understand what is God. If your mind is disturbed always, you cannot meditate, neither you can understand what is God, what you are. It is impossible. Therefore we have to accept any process which can make me joyful. That is stated in the Srimad-Bhagavatam. We have got… Simply we are not chanting by sentiment. We have got enough literature, philosophy, background. It is not that we are sentimentalist.

But this is a fact, that if you simply… You do not require to read all this literature. If you can, it is very good, but if you have no time, simply chant these sixteen words, Hare Krsna, Hare Krsna, Krsna Krsna, Hare Hare/ Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare. Make an experiment. We are not charging anything. We are not cheating you, that “Give me some fifty dollars or twenty dollars. I’ll give you some secret mantra.” No. It is open. You can take. Everyone can take. Everyone. We are chanting. You can chant with us and practice it, and there is no hard and fast rules and regulation. You can chant anyway, anywhere. Whether you are in the college, whether you’re on the street, whether you are sleeping, lying, or whatever, you can chant. Because God has given you this tongue and you can chant. And this Hare Krsna mantra, a dog or cat cannot chant although he has got the tongue. So you have got the facility. By God’s mercy you have got this facility to chant the holy name of God. If you think that Krsna is Indian God’s name, actually it is not Indian God’s name. Krsna never claims that He’s Indian or Hindu. Most of you have read Bhagavad-gita. He claims everyone as His son.

Not only human society—the animal society, bird society, the beast society, the plant society, the aquatic society, all. Sarva-yonisu. Sarva means all. Yoni, yoni means species of life. Everyone, all living entities, Krsna says. Krsna must be… If He is God, He must claim that, that “The material nature is their mother and I am their father.” So Krsna is for everyone. Not that… Don’t think that Krsna is for the Indian or for the Hindus. No. Hare Krsna, Hare Krsna. This Krsna is for everyone. For the human being, for the animals—everyone. So if you think that Krsna is belonging to some particular country or religion, then you can chant your own way. If in your religion, in your scripture, there is any God’s name, you can chant that also. Our only propaganda is that you increase your love of God. And the simple process is to chant this Hare Krsna, Hare Krsna, Krsna Krsna, Hare Hare/ Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare. There is no charge for it. There is no loss on your part. There is no inconvenience on your part. At any moment, at any place. There is no restriction. So why don’t you take advantage of this great boon to the human society?

So this Krsna consciousness movement is not any sectarian movement. It is practically postgraduate movement of all religion. Any religion, they have got some idea of God. But here, we are explaining what is God, how great He is, how you can establish your relationship with Him. These things are there. So any religious person, or any person, without being religious, if anyone joins with us in this sankirtana movement, his life will be sublime. And our method is very simple. We place before you to judge and join with us. That is our request.
Thank you very much. (devotees offer obeisances) Any question? Yes?

Student (1): Apparently, there are two parts to this. The first, the kirtana singing and dancing, to some extent resembles the rock music that appears in the Western world within the last five years. Very notably the Beatles song last year, “Hey Jude,” in the second part, is very similar in tune to this. The second, which is quite remote, but there is a connection—your message is similar in some ways to the message of evangelical or fundamentalist teachers in Christianity, who are taking the name of Jesus Christ…

Prabhupada: That’s all right.

Student (1): …and excluding everything other than complete devotion to Christ. Would you comment on this?

Prabhupada: Yes. That’s very nice. We completely agree. We say that chant the holy name of God. The vibration, the sound which you chant, that must be the holy name of God. Then it is all right. It doesn’t matter what is the language. Language has nothing, no significance. But this word “Krsna,” we consider it is transcendental vibration because all great saints and acaryas, they chanted, especially Lord Caitanya. As I explained from Srimad-Bhagavatam, krsna-varnam tvisakrsnam [SB 11.5.32]. Krsna varna, krsna varnayati. Lord Caitanya was always chanting, “Krsna, Krsna, Krsna, Krsna, Krsna, Krsna.” Therefore He is called krsna varnayati, krsna-varnam. Tvisakrsnam: by complexion He’s not black. Krsna was blackish, but Lord Caitanya, He was golden colored. So krsna-varnam tvisakrsnam sangopangastra-parsadam: [SB 11.5.32] always associated by followers. Yajnair sankirtana, chanting and dancing with Krsna’s name. Yajanti hi su-medhasah: this form of the Lord should be worshiped by persons who are intelligent. So if you follow the method, evangelist, that is also very nice, or this method… The business should be that we must realize in this human form of life what is our relationship with God. If we fail to do that, then we are misusing this human form of life.

In the Garga Upanisad it is said, etad viditva ya prayati sa brahmana. Etad aviditva ya prayati sa krpana. Brahmana, brahmana means broadminded, liberal. So one who… Everyone will die. The cats and dogs and human being, everyone will die. But the Garga Upanisad says that if one dies after understanding the science of God, then he is perfect. He is brahmana. His life is broader, mahatma. And if one dies without understanding this, he is krpana. Krpana means miser. Miser means… Suppose if you have got millions of dollars. If you cannot utilize it, if you simply waste it, then you are krpana, miser. You do not know how to spend money. Similarly, we have got this body which is worth…, not millions—trillions and more than that, because we can realize in this life what is our relationship with God, what is God. We can understand. But if we don’t do that, simply we waste our time in sense gratification, then we are krpana, miser. We are losing our opportunity. So these things are there. So in whatever way you like, either this evangelistic way or this way or that way, try to understand what is God and what is your relationship with God and try to invoke your dormant love of God. Then your life will be perfect. That is our mission. If you have got your own method, that’s all right. You take it. Otherwise we are giving this method, very simple. You take it. Your life will be sublime. That is our request. Yes?

Student (2): …question you stated. If (we devote) time trying to figure out our relationship to God, perhaps that takes time away from trying to figure out our relationship with all men. And I think I would anticipate your answer, I think, upon the… You’re talking about atma, and if one clearly has perception of the reality of their own atma, he would also see others as himself. Right? And to know his self and his God through others. But that doesn’t really answer. It doesn’t mean we’ll be able to decrease that condition. A lot of people suffer in this world, and they suffer for pretty indefiable(?) reasons: economic exploitation, racists trying to put structures, militaristic powers. And it seems somehow we might be able to do something to attack those kinds of evils and suffering in the world, other than telling a man to chant Hare Krsna and the world will be solved.

Prabhupada: That is automatically solved. If you chant, if you come to this God consciousness, those things will be automatically solved. Just like if you get million dollars, then your fifty dollars’ business will be automatically solved.

Student (2): Yeah, I guess that you could believe that.

Prabhupada: Not believe. Is practical.

Student (2): And I think the reason I don’t believe that is because history has told me differently. History has told me that people who have managed to achieve freedom for themselves have not achieved it by doing something like chanting Hare Krsna. And I refer you to…

Prabhupada: You can show in the history there was chanting of Hare Krsna? Is there any history?

Student (2): I won’t say chanting only Hare Krsna, but give you a similar time and place.

Prabhupada: What is that similar time?

Student (2): Well, in Russia, in the nineteenth century, there were people who were religious, who traveled the countryside chanting the word “Jesus Christ.” It was quite prominent then. Tolstoy tells us about it. And I would assume that a similar kind of teaching was given. The only problem I see with that is that I don’t think it would solve the very basic human problems.

Prabhupada: So do you think that Russia has solved their questions? That their problems, all problems are solved?

Student (2): I would say that in 1917 the state of the Russian peasants was fundamentally better by the revolution.

Prabhupada: Well, the history will repeat itself again. It will be wars again. So do you think by adopting the Russian method, people have become very happy?

Student (2): No.

Prabhupada: Then? So we manufacture something. This material world is like that, problematic. That I have already explained. Just like the blazing fire. So the answer is given in the Bhagavad-gita, daivi hy esa gunamayi mama duratyaya [Bg. 7.14]. In this material world the onslaught of the material nature is very, very severe. Nobody can surpass it. In some way or other it will come in a different form. The problem will not be solved. The problem can be solved, as it is stated in the Bhagavad-gita, mam eva ye prapadyante mayam etam taranti te, when one surrenders unto God, Krsna. Then he can surpass this onslaught of material nature. So that is the real remedy. Unfortunately, people does not take that process. But if anyone accepts this process, his problems are solved. That is the fact. That is the fact.

But we do not expect that everyone can accept this process. But if anyone can accept this process, at least his personal problems will be solved. But it is the duty of such God conscious persons to distribute the message. If anyone likes, he can take, he can solve his problems. And if he does not take, that business is the own business. What can I do? But any material method, either this Russian method or American method or Indian method, anything, materialistic method, that cannot solve the material problems. That is a fact. If you want to solve all the problems, then you have to invoke your dormant love for God. That is the solution. There is no other solution. Yes.

Student (3): I was wondering how important the choice of words are to the chanting. And if, perhaps, if you just count to ten in your mind or out loud, I thought it might work just as well.

Satsvarupa: “Could you just count numbers and think about God and that would work just as well? Are the names important?”

Prabhupada: Count words?

Satsvarupa: Could you just count—one, two, three, four—and that would work just as well.

Prabhupada: Well, that is not possible, of course, but as soon as stop counting, you can chant. (laughter) That’s not difficult. Yes?

Student (4): What is consciousness?

Prabhupada: Consciousness is very difficult to understand? Now you are talking, and when you don’t talk, you lie down. People will say this man has become unconscious. So this is the distinction. When you are in full knowledge of things, that is consciousness. It is not difficult to understand. Sometimes teachers say to the student, “Do it conscientiously, with attention.” When our full attention is there, full absorption, full concentration of the mind, that is consciousness. And another way of consciousness is the feeling which is spread all over your body. Just like I pinch over your head or any part of your body, you feel—that is consciousness. But when this body is dead or when you are out of this body, if I chop up your body, there is no consciousness. That is the distinction between consciousness. Avinasi tu tad viddhi yena sarvam idam tatam. In the Bhagavad-gita the consciousness is stated: avinasi. Avinasi means cannot, never dies. Always living. Avinasi tu tad viddhi. You just try to understand that thing without always living. What is that? Yena sarvam idam tatam—by which your whole body is spread by air(?). And anywhere of your body, that consciousness is spread. And that substance, consciousness, is always living. When you leave this body this consciousness goes to another body. Just like the air passes, the flavor the air carries from one garden to another place. Similarly, this consciousness will carry you to another body after your death. After you leave this body… Just like we are changing our consciousness also from childhood consciousness to boyhood, boyhood to youthhood, and the old age. The consciousness is carrying me although the body is changing. Similarly, when you change this body, the consciousness will carry you to another body. That consciousness is always living. It is never dead. [break] Because they don’t take it.

Student (5): Then why are we born without feeling.(?)

Prabhupada: That’s your independence. If you like you can take it. If you don’t like, you don’t take it. There are so many things. If you like, you take it; if you don’t like, you don’t take it. There is no enforcement. Every individual soul has got little independence. Not full independence. That can be used properly; that can be misused also. That depends on me. I am the master. So similarly… Just like the government. The government does not force anybody to go to the criminal department, neither government forces anybody to come to the university department. It is your individual liberty. You become criminal or a high standard scholar. [break] …has to make his choice. He has got the freedom. He may be Krsna conscious or he may be material conscious. If he’s material conscious, he’ll never be happy. If he becomes Krsna conscious, he’ll be always happy. Now it is up to you whether to accept this or that.


How would you say the chant in English?

Prabhupada: Chant in English?

Student (6): Yes. How would you say it in English?
Devotee: He wants a translation in English.

Prabhupada: So there are many boys. You can have the translation. We have got our translation in many literatures. In our paper, Back to Godhead, in many books. We have got many books. So translation is there. We are simply publishing so many English translation. So there is no scarcity of translation. Yes?

Student (7): Are you happy always in reflection?(?)

Prabhupada: What do you think? What do you think? I’m happy or not happy? What is your opinion? And if I say false, why do you believe? If I say falsely, “I am happy,” will you believe it? If I say falsely, “I am happy,” will you take it?

Student (7): That I don’t know.

Prabhupada: Yes?

Student (6): If I can rephrase that, if you were American, how would you say the chant? In other words, I know it has many translations, but what would it mean to you? How would you say it in English?

Prabhupada: English, the translation… What is that?

Jadurani: These words are Sanskrit. He wants to know if they were English what would they be?

Prabhupada: Well, proper names cannot be translated. You know that. Suppose if your name is John, and if I come from India I cannot translate into Indian language. I have to speak “John.” You see? Just like people say “Swami Bhaktivedanta.” Is there any translation, Bhaktivedanta Swami? Proper noun is never translated. That everyone knows. But the meaning can be translated. So we have got translation of the meaning, what is this Hare Krsna mantra means. But so far chanting is concerned, that if I call you, you are American boy, Mr. John, so I’ll have to call you Mr. John. I cannot translate into Sanskrit and call you. Yes?

Student (8): How important is your diet?

Prabhupada: Oh, that is a very important thing. If you read Dr. George Bernard Shaw’s book, You Are What You Eat, you see. So if you eat like human being, then you can increase your qualities of human being. If you eat like cats and dogs, you increase the quality of cats and dogs. That’s all. So we must have discrimination what to eat. That is there in the human world. Eating is there, but everything eatable. Even stool is eatable by a certain kind of animal, but that does not mean that stool has to be eaten by human being. Human being must have discretion what kind of food will be just suitable for my health, for my intelligence, for my brain. So these things are prescribed. If we eat things which are in goodness… They are prescribed in the Vedic literature that wheat, rice, sugar, milk product, vegetables, fruits, these things are in goodness. So if you want to increase your quality of goodness, that is required for God realization.

Unless you are situated in the quality of goodness, you cannot be promoted to the higher platform. So your eating should be arranged within this group: rice, wheat, sugar, milk product, vegetables, and fruits. In your country you have got enough nice grains, nice fruits, enough supply of milk, butter. So there is no question of accepting any other food. You can accept foodstuff within this group and become healthy and good brain, good conscience. You can engage yourself in God consciousness. That is possible. So therefore “Discrimination is the best part of valor.” We should discriminate what kind of food we should eat. We cannot eat anything and everything. That discrimination must be there. Yes?

Student (8): Would it not be better if intellectual (indistinct) and would it not be better for them to leave the father and devote their status, instead, to the Lord?(?)

Prabhupada: Of course, in the beginning I said that there is no question of changing your position. In whatever position you are, either you are a student or a lawyer or something else, you can chant Hare Krsna and realize yourself. We don’t recommend that you change your position. That is not our recommendation. But if you can (be) fully devoted in Krsna consciousness, that is very nice. But don’t do it whimsically. There will be a mature platform when you can do that. Just like I was a family man, I was living with my family. I have got my wife, sons, daughters, grandchildren. So in this old age I left them. So I’m not in difficulty although I am alone. I came in your country alone. That’s a long history. So that dependence on God, when you actually develop, then you can give up everything, depend only on God. But don’t do it by whimsically. No. That will not do. You stay in your position, realize yourself, then time will come when God will dictate you, “You can do…, become free from all obligation.” So please join with us in the kirtana. (kirtana) (end)